#618 Outsmart the Competition: Proven Strategies to 10x Business Growth with Michael Barbarita

Are you wasting 80% of your time on things that don’t drive results in your business?

In this value-packed episode of Talking with the Experts, we sit down with financial strategist and serial entrepreneur Michael Barbarita to uncover the business and marketing moves that your competitors aren’t doing—but should be.

Michael breaks down his Conversion Formula—a practical approach that transforms prospects into paying customers by focusing on high-impact activities. He also explains the Buyer’s Journey—why only 1% to 3% of your audience is ready to buy now, and how to engage the other 97% until they are.

With over 30 years of experience and millions in revenue growth across multiple ventures, Michael knows firsthand how to shift from random marketing acts to repeatable systems. You’ll learn how he grew “Ski Town USA” from $2.5M to $8M, and how one frozen cookie dough idea landed him on QVC.

What makes this conversation transformative is the clarity and simplicity of Michael’s advice. He demystifies financial and sales strategies and explains how just 20% of your efforts can produce 80% of your results—saving time, increasing ROI, and giving you a competitive edge.

Whether you’re a solopreneur, coach, or small business owner juggling multiple roles, this episode will help you stop spinning your wheels and start scaling strategically.

🎯 It’s time to take the guesswork out of growth.

📩 CONNECT WITH MICHAEL

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbarbarita/

Facebook: https://facebook.com/contractcfo/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nextstepcfo/

Website: https://www.nextstepcfo.net/

📌 PROMOTION: https://cfo-cfo.com/book-interview121388

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Transcript

Intro | 00:01
Welcome to Talking With The Experts. Here we discuss all things business. By business owners. For business owners. Here is your host, Rose Davidson. 

 Rose | 00:11
Hello, welcome to Talking with the Experts. I'm your host, Rose Davidson from rosedavidson.com.au. Today it's my very great pleasure to introduce you to Michael Bubb. Barbara Rita and Michael's going to be talking to us about business and financial strategies that competition isn't doing. And Michael is... He is owned, has owned and operated retail manufacturing and service companies for the past 30 years. One of the retail companies he operated called Ski Town USA grew from $2.5 million to $8 million in less than five years. One of the products he manufactured was cookies to scoop frozen cookie dough and has featured on the QVC Home Shopping Network and was selected as one of the top 20 products in the state of Massachusetts in 1997. Michael, it is such a pleasure to meet you. Thank you for joining me here on the podcast. 

 Michael | 01:11
Thank you, Rose. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. 

 Rose | 01:13
Tell me a little bit about your backgrounds. 

 Michael | 01:17
Well, I think you covered a lot of it. I've owned retail manufacturing and service companies, and one of the companies was a retailer that grew from $2.5 million to $8 million in five years. I owned a frozen cookie dough manufacturing company. Called Cookies to Scoop. And we grew the company and eventually sold it to a, frozen dessert manufacturer in the Boston area. 
 And then I had a failure. I, You know, During those successful ventures that I had, I always implemented business and financial strategies that my competition wasn't doing. But for some reason, I took some stupid pills or something when I started an outpatient rehabilitation facility called Freedom Therapy Center. And I did exactly what my competition was doing. I marketed to doctors to get referrals. I bribed front office staffs with chocolate cakes. I did the same protocols that my competition was doing. There was no creativity, no differentiation whatsoever. And I fell on my face. I had to close it. And, Yeah. 
 So, That was... That was an interesting experience. But I learned two things. I learned that the hardest thing to do after you fall on your face is to take the next step the step after the fall. And so 30 days after I closed Freedom Therapy Center, I started Next Step CFO. And the other thing that I learned is that you just can't keep doing what your competition is doing. You can't message the same way that your competition is messaging. 
 You know, great service, highest quality. Lowest price just doesn't work well. And so those are the things that I learned from my, stupid tell experience. 

 Rose | 03:16
Yeah, we can't keep doing what the competition's doing because the message gets lost in translation somewhere along the line. And, you know, you've got to do something that's a little bit out of the ordinary to be able to stand out. And in today's market, that can be really challenging because we're flooded with social media people posts and videos and reels and just... Stuff and you know the brain gets overloaded how can we use what we do to stand out and do what the competition isn't doing. 

 Michael | 03:52
Well, when I was doing research for my book called Powerful Business Strategies, which anyone can get online free of charge, it's nextstepcfo.net. They don't have to even put in an email address. You can just download it right from the homepage. But when I was doing research for my book, I had to go all the way back to 1931, of all things. Where I discovered that the key to successful marketing is that you have to get into the mind of the prospect. Now, it sounds like you have to be a mind reader, but you don't. Another way to look at it is you have to enter the conversation that's taking place in the mind of the prospect at just the right time. And so, We found in continuing that research, what we found was, is that The two emotional issues that are taking place in the customer's mind I send it around two things. Number one, the problem they have they don't want. Number two, the solution they want they can't find. And so we created a formula. Centered around that called the conversion formula. And the conversion formula allows one to convert a prospect into either the next step in their sales process. Or... To a sale. 
 So let me go through that. It's a four part formula. Let me go through that. It needs to be done in the right order. It needs to be followed correctly. Otherwise, it just doesn't work. It's like, You know, water is H2O. Two pots hydrogen, one pot oxygen. 
 Well, if you have, if I gave you one pot hydrogen and one pot oxygen, I don't have water. So it's the same thing with the conversion formula. It needs to be followed in the right order. 
 So the first, there's four parts. The first part is called captivate, which means identifying the problem that the customer has and doesn't want to. 
 So the customer, the prospect has a problem. They don't want it. They want to get rid of it. And so that leads us to the second step in the formula. 
 So that's called fascinate and that's the solution to the problem that they can't find. So you have the captivate, which is the problem. Fascinate, which is the solution. Those are the two emotional triggers. That I talked about earlier. That gets into the mind of the prospect. 
 And then finally, you educate them. So during the educate process, It's kind of a logical component of the conversion formula because people buy based on emotion and then back up that emotion logically. 
 So what we do is we hit them with the captivate the problem, fascinate the solution. Those are the emotional triggers. 
 And then we give them the educate. Which is describing the way we solve that problem and how our solution is superior to the competition. And that's the logical component. 
 And then finally, the fourth component is an offer. And the offer needs to be so compelling that the prospect cannot turn it down. And when we did research for our book, We identified Five components. Of a compelling offer. Thank you. And so, because we didn't want to leave the reader hanging, where we say, okay, we have captivate the problem. Fascinate the solution, educate where you describe where your product is superior to the competition. And your solution is superior to the competition, and then offer, which has to be so compelling. That the prospect can't turn it down. And so we didn't feel like we could leave the reader there. We felt like we had to identify the five, we found five components of a compelling offer. And if you'd like, I'd be happy to share those with you. 

 Rose | 07:51
Absolutely. I'm sitting here glued to the screen. I'm waiting for you to give me more. 
 So yeah, it's fascinating. Love. 

 Michael | 07:58
It. Okay. 
 So the first component is urgency and scarcity. So that's and that's the first component is both of those urgency, meaning. This offer ends on Friday. Scarcity means we only have three left or we only have three appointment slots if that's part of your sales process. And so that scarcity and urgency generates a compelling offer. Now, Keep in mind, Then I'm going to give you five and you can, the more you incorporate into your offer, the more of these components that you incorporate in the offer, the more effective your offer will be. 
 So the second is a risk reversal. Where the seller in the transaction takes most of all the risk. And let me give you an example. 
 So when I was in the ski business, The problem the customer had was they never really knew if the ski they were being sold was the right skate for them until they got it up on the mountain and tried it out. So we offered what no one else would copy, even when it was successful. We offered a ski guarantee. Ski the ski three times, you don't like it, bring it back for a brand new pair. And keep bringing it back until we get it right. We sold 8,000 pair of skis the first year we implemented it. A 25% increase from the previous year. And only eight came back. Which because Our belief was, and it really came out to be true, that all the customer really wanted was a great ski experience. They weren't out to get. Get the ski retailer. By just come back every five minutes Right. Bringing back skis that they're saying don't work. 
 So. And when I introduced this to my staff, they thought I was out of my mind. Because they envision thousands of pair of skis coming back and people taking full advantage of it. But my mindset was that the customer only wanted a great ski experience. 
 And then we, you know, the second year we implemented it, we sold 11,000 pair of skis and only 14 came back. So, you know, that's a risk reversal. A couple of my clients who are in the construction industry have a five-year warranty on all of their work. All of that, those are all risk reversals. The third component of a compelling offer is adding more value. Your product or service. When I was in the frozen cookie dough business, the problem the customer had was They didn't want to waste valuable oven space baking cookies. If they were a pizza parlor or a sub shop, they wanted their oven consumed with pizzas and subs. 
 So what we did, Is we gave, we understood the long-term value of a customer. Very important, by the way, for everybody to understand that. 
 So we understood the long-term value of a customer was $5,000. We believed in our product. Very important. And we, so with every opening order, which by the way, averaged $50, we would give away a free convection oven. 
 So that they could bake the cookies in the free convection oven. They didn't have to worry about using their main oven. And by the way, it offered them the opportunity to bake other things in it as well. If they wanted to. Okay. And that worked famously because it was a problem that the customer had, right? They didn't want to waste valuable oven space baking cookies. We gave them an oven. It was a great deal for them. The opening order averaged 50 bucks and they're going to get a $200 value right out of the chute. And yes, Sometimes we got beat on that. But because we believed in our product, And because we understood the long-term value of a customer, it worked famously. That's adding more value to a product. Now that I took it to an extreme, There are other ways to add values to product with less of a cost. The fourth component is packaging and bundling. Services together, that really differentiates you from your competition. Why? Because your competition doesn't have the same bundle and package. When I was in the ski business, everybody did ski packages, skis, bindings and poles. OK, they still do today. But what we did is we took the most Populous Ski Graphics. And we went into the clothing department And we bundled and packaged a hat. Parker? Can't. Bib. And sweaters. Package it together with the most popular ski graphics. 
 So that when they bought the skis, They had the clothing to match. And that worked incredible. And once again, my competition, even after they knew it worked. Never copied it. And Now, that doesn't happen all the time. But it happened with me. And so that's the fourth component. Once again, you can combine these components. And finally, the fifth component of the compelling offer is the most difficult. And it is being indifferent and disconnected to the outcomes. When you are connected to the outcome, Meaning you have to make a sale. You'll want to make a sale. You've got to make a sale. What happens is the prospect picks up on it. And understands that you are out. For yourself and not for them. And. There are ways, many ways, to show how you're disconnected to the outcome. One of the ways that I work is that whether you work with me or someone else. There are five steps that you must take in order to properly implement business and financial strategies that your competition isn't doing. 
 And then I go through those five steps. But I say whether you work with me or someone else, that being indifferent, that's disconnecting to the outcome. 

 Rose | 14:26
Wow. My God. It is absolutely brilliant and it's probably the best marketing strategy I have heard in a very long time that was just so easy to understand. Thank you. 

 Michael | 14:42
My pleasure. And, you know, I'm a financial guy, you know, we at Next Step CFO. We perform-- we do financial strategies. Such as solving cash flow problems, business and cash flow forecasting, we do, understanding the critical met, we identify the critical metrics in the business, but we're strategic. 
 You know, Rose, if, If I was going for a job in the Fortune 500 as a CFO, If I'm not strategic, I don't get the job. CFOs must be strategic, but for some reason, fractional CFOs get away with not being strategic. And so that's why we understand the marketing side and the business side so well. Because If you're going to deal with somebody's financial situation, strategies. Then you have to understand the business strategies as well. And that's why we combine them. 

 Rose | 15:46
Yeah, I don't know. I'm not a numbers person, so, you know, I... I can do anything else except numbers. I'm not a fan. Yes. 

 Michael | 16:00
So we call ourselves a fractional CFO and strategic implementation firm. So that's who we are and what we do. And I wanted to mention one other thing, if I could. It's called I Hope So Marketing. Okay, and this is what I'm talking about. If you go on websites 95% of the time and really close at the 99% of the time, you'll see things like largest selection, lowest prices, best service, most convenient, most professional, honest and sincere, highest quality. This is all jargon that everybody uses. And I call it, I hope so, marketing. Because the customer is saying to themselves, Well, I hope you have the largest selection. I hope you have the best service. I hope you're the most convenient. I hope you're the highest quality. Why would I do business with somebody who doesn't have high quality? And so I call what is happening mostly in the marketplace I hope so, marketing. Because the customer... Because everybody's saying this jargon, And And so the client, a customer prospect, They're saying, I hope so. When they hear that stuff. It doesn't separate you. And that's why the conversion formula is so effective. It doesn't talk about any jargon. It identifies the problem the customer has. It identifies the unique solution that you have. It educates, and then you can submit the offer. 

 Rose | 17:32
Absolutely brilliant. And I love the fact that, you know, that the steps that you outline are so simple and that, you know, we can use it in our everyday marketing to get those conversions that we, you know, are all desperate to have in our business. And I agree with you about the jargon, you know, those conversions. Terms that people use. Are so overused and you know you're right why would i buy for someone who has you know Certain things, they say certain things about themselves. 
 Honestly, you know, sometimes I wonder where they get their brains from and who their marketing people are. But yeah, so, you know, I think. Converting from a prospect into a customer is, There is a journey in that and you need to follow those particular steps to get to where you need to be. 

 Michael | 18:23
Well, that's what we found interesting, because one of the things that we researched is that only one to 3%. Of any market at any time. In any industry is ready to buy now. The other 97 to 99% are on the buyer's journey. And that's why people are so resistant to sales. There's a journey that they actually go down on their way to a purchase. And If What we found is that if you utilize the conversion formula while they're on that journey, it compresses the timeframe that they're on the journey. Because a journey can last anywhere from 15 minutes to 15 years. Or more. And so. But what we found is that if you use the conversion formula in communicating to prospects while they're on the buyer's journey, We can compress the timeframe in which they're ready to buy. Because we're identifying those emotional hot buttons. 

 Rose | 19:25
And I think you're right. I mean, there are... 
 I mean, humans have the... Have the attention span of a goldfish or probably less than a goldfish now, which is like two or three seconds. And, you know, it used to be when you were marketing that there were, you know, seven touch points and there were 12. Now it's like 20. 
 You know, people aren't going to buy just for the sake of it anymore. They really want to be convinced that what you are doing. Selling. Is something that's going to fit them. And this happens a lot with coaches. 
 You know, people, you know, they push and push. These coaches push people to try and buy something. But the client or prospect is not ready to buy. That's us. 
 Yeah. You know? There is, you know, so many different reasons why, but the coach doesn't see the wood for the trees to say, well, you know, this person isn't ready yet to buy from me, but, you know, Keep in touch with them. They might be ready in a year or two. But, you know, don't give up hope. Just keep trying. 

 Michael | 20:31
Right. And, What we found is that when you use the conversion formula, 80% of the time, the touch points reduce between five and 11 touch points, 12 touch points. Versus that 20 to 100 that normally takes place when you're not using the conversion formula. 

 Rose | 20:51
Okay. That's interesting and good to know. 
 You know, when I have guests on here, I learn so much and, you know, I love it. That's why I love doing this podcast. I learn heaps. 

 Michael | 21:04
Now. 

 Rose | 21:06
If you want to find more about Michael and the next step CFO you can find him on LinkedIn at Michael Barbarita he's on Facebook at contract CFO Instagram at next step CFO And his website is nextstepcfo.net. And he wants to promote... Book an interview. 

 Michael | 21:29
Yes, that's correct. Business is always changing. As we know. 
 You know, when I wrote the book, You know, the interest rates were low. And, you know, now they're higher. There were no terrorists when I wrote the book. Now there are terrorists. There was no inflation when I wrote the last edition. Now they're in. 
 So it's because business is always changing. I want to make sure that our strategies are up to date. And so I interview, and we believe they still work, Well, we just need some industry information to prove what we already know. And what we'd like to do is we like to interview business owners just from an industry perspective. 
 So basically it's 60 minutes on Loom. We present the strategies from the book. 
 And then we ask. The interviewee, the business owner, What would the impact of that strategy be if a business owner would implement it in your industry? 
 And then we would document it for the book. That's it. 
 So if people want that, they could go to nextstepcfo.net forward Slack contact, fill out the contact form, put book interview in the message center, in the message box. Send it off and that's it. Be happy to interview them. 

 Rose | 22:49
Michael, I could sit here and talk to you about this for all night. You know, time's running short and it's getting late, my end of the day. End of the world. 
 So Been an absolute pleasure, Michael. 

 Michael | 22:59
I understand. 

 Rose | 23:02
Thank you so much for sharing your formulas and your steps on how to, you know, making our marketing work. Better to, you know, doing what the competition isn't doing. 

 Michael | 23:13
Thank you, Rose. Great to be here. Thank you for having me. 

 Rose | 23:15
Bye for now. 

 Michael | 23:16
Bye-bye. 

 Outro | 23:19
You've been listening to Talking With The Experts, hosted by Rose Davidson. Make sure you have a look at our back catalogue over at talkingwiththeexperts.com. And be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss out on any episode. We look forward to your company next time.