#662 Human First Marketing: Why People Are the Future of Every Brand with Phil Treagus-Evans

What if your marketing focused on humans—not metrics?

In this thought-provoking conversation, Phil Treagus-Evans, CEO and co-founder of Giraffe Social, shares why the most successful brands of tomorrow will be the ones that remember who they’re talking to: real people.

Phil’s bestselling book, Human First Marketing: The Art of Being Seen, Trusted and Remembered, challenges traditional marketing playbooks and calls for a shift toward empathy, connection, and authenticity. In this episode, you’ll discover what “human first” really means, how to apply it in your own business, and why building emotional resonance leads to lasting trust.

If you’ve ever wondered why your marketing feels hollow—or how to make people genuinely care—this conversation will re-ignite your sense of purpose and possibility.

Tune in to learn practical strategies for making your audience feel seen, valued, and inspired to stay connected.

🔗 CONNECT WITH PHIL

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-treagus-evans/

Website: https://www.giraffesocialmedia.co.uk

📌 PROMOTION: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Human-First-Marketing-Trusted-Remembered/dp/1068454202

▼ ▼

Transcript

Intro | 00:00
Business insights on talking with the experts. Hosted by Rose Davidson. 

 Rose | 00:10
I'm Rose Davidson from Talking With The Experts and I'm a podcast coach and indie host helping entrepreneurs amplify their voices and today my guest is Phil Treagus-Evans and we're going to be talking about human-first marketing. Now A little bit about Phil, he's the CEO and co-founder of the social media agency Giraffe Social. He is the best-selling author of a book called Human First Marketing, The Art of Being Seen, Trusted and Remembered, and we'll discuss that a bit later on in this interview. Phil, welcome to Talking With The Experts. It's such a pleasure to meet you. 

 Phil | 00:48
Thank you, Rose. It's a pleasure to be here. 

 Rose | 00:52
I'm so glad. Tell me a little bit about why you chose marketing to be your forever friend. 

 Phil | 01:02
Thank you. To be honest with you, I don't think I did choose it. I think I stumbled into it. Coming out of university, I probably wasn't fully focused on marketing, but more the idea of entrepreneurship. And I think in those early days of trying to start companies, my friend who I started the business, the first business with. We realized that we were quite good at this social media marketing thing. And we were starting to help friends and family with their social media for their businesses. It was quite early in the time where social media was only just starting to be used for businesses. 
 So yeah, We sort of stumbled into it. We sort of said, hey, maybe we should start a social media agency and... To be honest, I'm not even sure if we would have called it an agency. I don't think we even knew really what we were starting. 
 So we just sort of started and yeah, we're 13, 14 years later, we're still doing it. And yeah. And now I've written a book on marketing. 
 So I guess marketing is now my forever friend, as you put it.? 

 Rose | 02:12
Okay, we're going to talk about human-first marketing, but what is it? I mean, it sounds like it sounds probably like what it sounds like, but, you know, please explain it to me. 

 Phil | 02:24
Yeah, sure. So yeah, human first marketing is putting people back at the heart of marketing strategies. 
 So we've seen this in giraffe, our social media agency, where the best results that we've generated for clients over the last few years has been any time we've really front and centered the people, the humans behind it. So we've, There's two sides to that, right? 
 So there's the business side. So that could be their team, maybe their board, their founder. 
 And then the other side of that is their customers who, due to metrics and AI and data, are often reduced to data points. And we almost forget that these are real people who have lives and emotions and things going on and, Yeah, I'm... At my very core, I believe that business and marketing can be a force for good. And I think too often it's not. 
 So human-first marketing is really about getting back to the basics of realizing that marketing is just one group of people trying to provide value to another group of people. And I think better marketing is done not just for people, but for results as well when we get back to those basics. 

 Rose | 03:42
Yeah, I agree. I think too many businesses are too focused on the business and not to the people behind the business and to the people that they're marketing to.- 
 You know, you type KFC or McDonald's or whatever, they market to the people. But there are other brands that are starting out. They just want people to buy their product, but they don't, Think about it. The people that are buying the product, then it's not that their advertising is geared towards their customer or the potential customer. 

 Phil | 04:17
Yeah, and I think this is the... It's become almost an age old So. Argument between brand and performance. 
 So many businesses understand. And as a result of the marketing as well as a way. And I think AI has been like fuel on the fire for that because it's allowed us to scale the rubbish that we were already doing. 
 So rather than putting out one bad post, we're now putting out 50 bad posts. And it's really just making the problem worse because Consumers are now overly saturated with homogenized content that just doesn't register with them at all. 
 So yeah, I just recently just did a talk on the idea that in a world of AR, your humanity is your competitive edge. As marketers, we're always looking for a point of differentiation, something to make us stand out. And for me, AI is creating an opportunity where That is now more obvious than ever. It's your people. That's the thing that's going to help you different to your competitors if you focus on people rather than just scaling up nonsense you know so yeah. 

 Rose | 05:44
Yeah, I agree to that point as well, because to me, I love AI. I love the fact that I can go in. Give it an idea and say, please create me a post. 
 You know, I may not use the word. My AI seems to understand me perfectly. I don't know why, but maybe I've trained it properly or something. I'm not sure. But, you know... It hits the mark, the post that it writes hits the mark for me, right to my voice and, you know, and I've made sure that it resonates with you know, potential clients because, you know, using the words that they use, I'm, you know, using language based around, you know, my ideal client. 
 So all of those things AI has been really helpful with where before, you know, it was for me anyway, it was a bit hit and miss. 

 Phil | 06:39
Sure. I think... To be clear, I'm not anti-AI. I use it every day. I think everyone does. I'm just anti sort of lazy use of AI. I think, you know, we remove the nuance with AI when it comes to things like posts in the sense that If you're training... A custom chat to understand your tone of voice and your sort of beliefs and you're giving it prompts that, you're providing the insight and the sort of, this is what I believe about this thing, or this is my thoughts on this topic. 
 And then it's creating content in your voice. With your opinions and ideas. , Write me 10 posts about leadership and then just copy and paste them onto LinkedIn. I can't imagine, you know, either of us are doing that, but there are lots of people who are, and you only have to scroll through LinkedIn to see it. So yeah, that's the, the core sort of separation between those things is that they're there is a difference and there is nuance and a spectrum between, yeah, just sitting down with a blank bit of paper and writing something and, Yeah, just saying to ChatGPT, write me a post on this. I think that's the nuance. 

 Rose | 08:08
Yeah. And, you know, I admire the people that still write from the heart and, you know, still... Don't rely on AI to write their posts for them and they write as they would speak or whatever's on their mind at that particular moment. I admire that. And I think AI probably takes away a little bit of our brain power. Because we rely on it a lot. 

 Phil | 08:34
Yeah, I think writing is a really important practice because writing And I think writing the book highlighted that to me more than ever is I think when you're writing it's, you're forcing yourself to have to question your beliefs and sort of fine-tune your opinion. So a lot of the ideas that you can find in the book are They've been floating around my head chaotically for years. But having to write a book kind of forced me to sit down and think, okay, so I think this is that true? Why? Is there any reason why that is that way? 
 And then organize these thoughts into a framework, a structure, something that's coherent and that other marketers can use. So That's something that if you were to just spit everything into AI and say, look, write me a book, you wouldn't get that out of it. 
 So you'd still get an end product. But the journey of getting to the end product is often where you're going to learn the most. 
 So yeah, I would encourage anyone to, whether it's I saw. Posts or books or articles, whatever, even journaling. I think writing is a really important practice. 

 Rose | 09:56
Yeah, it is. It is. And, you know, we have to be able to put ourselves and put our own feelings and things into place. Phil, I want to ask you about why it is the key to success for brands of tomorrow. 
 So what is the human goal? Factor behind everything that will make marketing successful or brands more successful. 

 Phil | 10:19
I think it's the we are seeing more and more people using AI for their marketing. And that is creating an opportunity because as I said earlier, Being human, showing your face, you know, being real, authentic in a world that's becoming increasingly artificial is how you're going to stand out. And this isn't. Just a prediction for what I think is going to happen. This is based on evidence of what has been happening. 
 You know, we've worked with hundreds of brands and we've seen the patterns and we've seen what works and what doesn't. So this is stuff that is drawn from research, but just personal experiences of working with companies of all different sizes and seeing the impact that deploying human first strategies, whether that be, having a more of a founder led style to your business or whether that's employee advocacy and having a team who want to post about the business and what you're doing. And they're almost all developing their own personal brands and, you know, Those things are other things that are going to cut through and, the sort of wave of AI content and the sort of sea of sameness is not, it's not going to stop, we are obviously moving further and further in that direction. And I think when that's happening, it's the classic case of when everyone's zigging. You should zag. And I believe this to be how you do that. 

 Rose | 11:53
Yeah, I think so. You know, I've never been one to stick to the straight and narrow. And, you know, when people are doing one thing, I'm used to going off and doing something different. But you know sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't so. 

 Phil | 12:07
Yeah well that's the risk isn't it but i mean you're a great example rose because you're doing a podcast where people get to know you they get to see you like this is human first marketing this is you being front and center so they put a face to the name and they get to sort of build almost a parasocial relationship with you by listening to the podcast and watching the podcast. So yeah, this is a perfect example of it. 

 Rose | 12:36
- Yeah, you know, Trying to teach other people how to podcast or be brave enough to start a podcast is been a challenge for me. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know why more business owners aren't doing it, but, you know, it's their choice. 

 Phil | 12:55
I think it is. It's daunting, right? It's not a lot of people don't want to be visible and front and center. And I think for those people, I would say there's lots of ways of doing this. 
 Like one way is a podcast where you're. You know, on camera and you're on mic. If that's not your thing, maybe your thing is writing. Maybe you write a blog post or you try and get a column with a marketing or, you know, a publication in your industry. It doesn't have to just be one way. I sort of talk about it in the book, but you try and Find a few things that are very much in your comfort zone, but.. Have the potential for high impact and then pick one or two things that are just slightly out of your comfort zone that sort of force you to stretch a little bit and to try things. 
 So yeah, I think. All of this stuff is daunting when you first do it, but I think the more you do it, the... 

 Rose | 13:51
I was terrified when I first started. I thought, my God. My interview skills were absolutely appalling. 

 Phil | 13:59
I'm sure they were. 

 Rose | 14:01
I've improved over the last five years. 

 Phil | 14:03
Yeah. I think with podcasts, especially there's whenever I've spoken to people who launch podcasts, they, the hesitation is often, that they fear that they're going to be positioning themselves as, I don't know what I'm doing. 
 So I'm asking other people what they're doing. And I think that the reality is it's fair. It couldn't be further from the truth. And, encouraging people to have conversations and to accept, hey, I don't know everything. If I speak to this expert, I'm going to learn about this. And if I speak to them, I'm going to learn this. But I'm going to get a chance to part with my own wisdom, I think is incredibly powerful. And yeah, I think that sometimes is the hurdle that, business leaders have to kind of jump over is that It's okay to be on that side of the table. In fact, I think it's a really good thing. 

 Rose | 14:55
Yeah. I have learnt so much in the last five years. It's been absolutely mind-blowing. 
 I mean, I don't remember it all, but that's how I'm able to carry on these conversations because I've learnt from other marketers or other business leaders who've come and imparted their wisdom to me. And so I can actually carry on a half-decent conversation with my guests now where before it was like I didn't know anything about anything. 
 Yeah. 

 Phil | 15:24
Yeah. And it's perfect for when you now have to make small talk in the supermarket or whatever, but you're probably pretty good at that now. 

 Rose | 15:31
Bye. So how do we get started, Phil, with this human first marketing? What are the first steps that we need to take? 

 Phil | 15:39
Sure. So I think... In terms of something that people could do straight away is to include more faces in your marketing and your social media posts. And I mean like real faces, not artificially created faces or... Stock images of people you don't know. 
 You know, I think We've seen, I think there was a study And to be fair, it was a few years back now. So maybe even more the case these days, but there was a study that on Instagram, I think it was... 38 times more likely that people would engage with content that included a human face, which is crazy. And the reason for that, without meaning to get too technical, is that We actually have a part of our brain that called the fusiform face area. And it, Its sole purpose is to detect faces. 
 You know, it's hardwired into our brain, but when we see a face, our brain detects. Turns on and we pay attention. 
 So One of the first things I would say is include more faces. The second thing I would say is Be as authentic as you can. And I think authenticity is one of those words as marketers that we hear probably every 30 seconds. It's so overused. And I think when that happens, you sort of almost feel like it loses its meaning a little. 

 Rose | 17:05
It's like the word pivot that we're using a couple of years ago. 

 Phil | 17:09
Pivot had a moment. Authenticity, there's lots of them. But authenticity to me is just being yourself. It's just, and being a less polished person So, yeah. I always use the book as an example because I'd never written a book before. I didn't know what I was doing. I was just. Figuring it out as I went. And Because the book is on human-first marketing, I thought it'd be pretty hypocritical if I don't try and deploy some of these techniques to market the book itself. 
 So... What I did is I just shared my journey. I admitted when I didn't know what I was doing. I asked for help when I needed it. I asked people to vote on book covers and titles and, And I started doing that pretty much from day one. 
 So I used to post almost once a week on LinkedIn with like my word count of like how many words I'd written, how far in I was, what I was writing about that week, what I was struggling with. You know, I was open about the fact that there was lots of healthy doses of imposter syndrome as I was doing it. And... I believe that that's the reason the book did so well because people, They didn't just buy into the book they bought into me and into the journey that I went on, and they felt some ownership over that journey. And when the book went live, it became a best seller on the first day. Out of five, out of the six categories it was in, it was the number one. And I think it broke the top. Congratulations. Thank you so much. It broke into the top 750 books on all of Amazon, which... It was baffling. I couldn't believe it. But the reality is that It wasn't because I'm some amazing famous author, it was because I'd shared the journey the whole way through. 
 So people wanted to buy the book because they felt some ownership over it. And that to me is really special. It sort of built a community over that period of time. 
 So yeah, I think show more faces and be as authentic as you can. 

 Rose | 19:13
Yeah, I think that's a really great starting point too. A lot of businesses don't show their staff members You know, they try and keep them hidden in the background because, you know, they don't They're not camera ready or they're not But the thing is, if you show spontaneity... And just take a photo of somebody, you know, working at their desk or having a coffee or by the drink fountain or whatever, you know, and put words to that photo, you know, people will probably be more engaged than if you have some stock photo of you know, the CEO there or something. 

 Phil | 19:55
Yeah. Two men in suits high-fiving over a boardroom. 
 Yeah, I know the stock image that you're thinking of. No, you're completely right. And I think. 
 Trust for me is the most important currency of marketing now. So yeah. Get more people in there. 

 Rose | 20:25
Tell me about human-first marketing, the art of being seen, trusted and remembered. Tell me what's in it and why should people buy it? 

 Phil | 20:33
Sure. So the book is... Very long, probably too long. I had lots of conversation with my editor towards the end of this is a chunky book. But the truth is that when I was writing it, I'm a bit of a book nerd and I often read business books and feel like, I don't know, that maybe it could have been a blog post or a white paper or, you know, sort of one idea that's been kind of stretched thinly across a book. 
 So I was desperate to just provide as much value as possible. So the book is... Probably equal parts theory psychology, philosophy, why this is working and what it means for marketing. 
 And then the second half is a lot more practical. Here are things you can do today across all the different types of marketing, digital marketing, especially so that. People are learning, but they're having things they can literally open the laptop, try today and see the results so that they don't have to question it. 
 You know, they can be their own case study. So yeah, the book is... The first sort of half is principles, theory. The second half is here's how to do it. 
 So if anyone's interested in it and sort of buys into the idea that and sort of the world it's creating is sort of sparking opportunity for people who do go a more human first direction and Check it out and see what you think and let me know what you think as well. 

 Rose | 22:11
I'll buy the second half. 

 Phil | 22:15
I'll do you a discount. Half price. You pick half. 
 So. 

 Rose | 22:22
Much. Now, if you want to find more about Phil, you can find him on LinkedIn and at his website, giraffesocialmedia.co.uk. And his promotion is his book. 
 So... Bill, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me. I've had so much fun. 

 Phil | 22:40
Good. Thank you, Rosie. It's been lovely to speak to you. 

 Rose | 22:43
Bye-bye. 

 Outro | 22:46
You've been listening to Talking with the Experts with Rose Davidson. The podcast that brings you real stories, bold insights and strategies that work. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast channel so you never miss an episode and dive into our full library anytime at talkingwiththeexperts.com. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing and keep talking with the experts.