#646 Breaking Free from Toxic 'Family' Cultures in Business

Have you ever felt trapped in a workplace that called itself a “family,” but left you feeling drained, stifled, or unseen? 

In this thought-provoking episode of Talking with the Experts, I sit down with leadership coach Jack Glennon to explore the hidden costs of toxic “family” cultures in business and how they can hold back both individuals and teams.

Jack draws on more than two decades of leadership experience to reveal the emotional and professional toll these cultures create—from limiting personal growth to contributing to burnout and even affecting mental health. He shares his own insights into how professionals can rebuild after setbacks such as redundancies, toxic bosses, or unhealthy work dynamics.

We go beyond the pain to the possibility. Jack outlines practical strategies for redefining your professional identity, regaining confidence, and taking control of your career narrative. Leaders will also learn how to foster cultures of authenticity and empowerment, where individuals are encouraged to grow rather than conform.

This episode is not just about leaving behind what doesn’t serve you—it’s about stepping into a healthier, more resilient version of yourself. If you’ve ever struggled with feeling stuck in a workplace that doesn’t align with your values, this conversation will give you tools to break free and create something better.

🔗 CONNECT WITH JACK

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-glennon-936634118

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/glennonpc/

Website: https://www.glennonpc.com

📌 PROMOTION: https://glennonpc.com/bookings/ola/services/free-30-minute-intro-coaching
▼ ▼

Chapters

• 1:34 Family culture becomes dangerous when employees work more than they should and sacrifice personal relationships because they buy into the family narrative, blurring professional boundaries.
• 6:29 Organizations with toxic family cultures often have CEOs who treat employees badly while maintaining the family rhetoric, creating environments where people either become part of the problem or leave.
• 7:17 Practical strategies for redefining workplace identity after adversity include changing perspective by analyzing whether it was the person or the role that was eliminated, recognizing job loss as a chapter ending rather than the end of one's story.
• 16:08 Culture cannot be forced through mandatory events or pizza Fridays, but must be built through genuine leadership behaviors that value people's time, wages, and growth opportunities.
• 24:14 Setbacks don't define people but refine them, and individuals should get comfortable dancing in the rain rather than fearing storms, as resilience comes from bouncing back through adversity.

Transcript

Intro | 00:00
Business insights on talking with the experts. Hosted by Rose Davidson. 

 Rose | 00:10
Family culture in your small business. Jack Glennon is going to share how it can inadvertently stifle personal growth and have an emotional toll on your team. Now, Jack is a leadership coach and founder of Glenn and Pete Coaching, specialising in empowering individuals to navigate career transitions, overcome adversity and lead with emotional intelligence. With over 20 years of experience in leadership roles across various industries, Jack helps professionals redefine their identity, especially after setbacks like redundancies or toxic work environments. His coaching approach focuses on building resilience, fostering self-esteem. Self-awareness and creating more authentic leadership pathways. Jack's mission is to guide individuals and leaders toward positive transformations both personally and professionally ensuring they thrive in their careers without compromising their well-being. 
 I man after my own heart welcome Jack to Talking With The Experts. 

 Jack | 01:09
Thank you very much Rose it's an absolute delight to be here. 

 Rose | 01:12
It's lovely to see you again. Thank you for returning. You've been on two of my summits now, and I think this is your second time on the podcast. 
 So thank you so much for giving up your time to be with me today. Tell me a little bit about why you think family cultures in business is bad. 

 Jack | 01:34
Great starting question. I think mostly I firstly want to caveat that not ALL family cultures and businesses are bad. And what I mean by that, if you can imagine a... Corners, a shop or a deli on the corner with mum and pop and it's been passed down through generation to generation or a small restaurant recipes passed through generation. Amazing. I love, we need more of those, not less. I think that's fantastic. Where I think A lot of businesses get it wrong, and it's probably escalated over the last decade or so, is when we're talking larger businesses. And organisations. 
 Sometimes national or global organizations and businesses. And they talk about culture a lot. And every business has... Cultural values that they want to behold by. 
 You know, it's a big selling point and it's, we'd like to think most of the time it's true. When it comes to culture pillars and culture values that they talk about family, it can get very dangerous. Now, that's due to two different elements. The first one gets talked about all the time. And I'd firstly like to say I've admitted to doing this. What we call drunk the Kool-Aid a lot in the past. And therefore I've learned from mistakes for doing so. Because if you're working for somewhere where they talk about being a family and you buy into it, what happens? You work more than you probably should. You give more than you probably should. A job, it should be, is a transactional environment, you know. And therefore you sacrifice. Elements around you, such as your actual family or the passions and the loves that you do, because that's what you do. If you're in a family. That blows those lines. And that's not good. And I don't want to downplay at all the impact that can have, because that can be naturally detrimental to your health, which I know we're going to touch on a little bit. The second part... That I think is more dangerous doesn't get spoken about that often, and there's a reason for it. This happens when things go wrong. And when I mean by things go wrong, I mean when businesses and organizations have to behave like a business and organization and look after itself first. Thank you. 
 So we're talking disciplinaries, we're talking redundancies, layoffs, we're talking downsizing, shifts in the market, disagreements, conflicts, these elements that happen. And rightly so, businesses have to survive. Therefore, they have to shift, merge, change, progress. With the environment they're in. And therefore... People are sometimes let go or there's a political upturn. Now, If you're so wedded into this idea of we're a family... This notion of you being discarded or treated wrongly, unfairly, or ostracized in any way. Is so foreign. That when it happens, It can do so much mental... Damage. And I've seen and I've worked with people who, for years look back on where this has happened to them and still hold, you can still tell when they talk about it, that sort of bitterness and almost, unresolved. Emotional toll that's taken because They were pulled away from there. Quite-on-quite family. And at the same time when it happens, If you're that individual, you question your own worth. And I know you touched on that because it's huge. You're worth so much more. Because it's effectively my family doesn't want me anymore. Why? What have I done wrong? Rather than being a transactional situation, it's the role, it's the position that's no longer there or it's situational, whatever it might be. 

 Rose | 05:25
I agree. I think it can be really harmful to the person who, you know, may not have the best family life, like a real family life. And all of a sudden they're included in this business as parents. Part of the family when in fact, you know, they're just really an employee. And I think... The word family culture is really detrimental. I don't think it should be allowed to be used at all because I have been involved in organisations that have had this family culture and really they treated their employees so badly, you wouldn't think it was a family. And to be honest, you know, there was the CEO and then, you know, had all the underlings underneath and he just was so he was a toxic person. And, you know, if you were to involve yourself with that kind of real type of family, you wouldn't survive. 
 So, you know, how do you expect employees or team members to survive in such toxic conditions? And to me, it's totally mind blowing. 

 Jack | 06:29
Yeah, absolutely. And I think in that environment, people either become part of the problem because it feeds down hills. 
 So you get on board or you get off, which feeds the animal. But you're absolutely spot on. And I was talking to a long time ago, one of my colleagues. My clients and they were looking for different roles and this came up and i said very because I sometimes need to be direct, very directly. If you see it, run. If you see anywhere going with talking about us being a family and it's not the small place on the corner, mum and pop, deli, restaurant, whatever we're talking, which are great. If it's not that, run as far as you can. 

 Rose | 07:06
Absolutely. No, I totally 100% agree. What are some practical strategies for redefining our identities in the workplace after, you know, this adversity? 

 Jack | 07:17
Great question. The first, when these things have happened, it's often the scenario where you're no longer in the workplace or no longer in that workplace. 
 So first and foremost, it's about. Perspective changing. Because it's all mental. It's all taking the scenario and analyzing it by taking a step back. 
 So firstly, what I talk about when we talk about redundancies is very much looking at Was it you or was it the role? What's been effective? What's been removed from the situation? The role has been removed. Have you done everything you can do in that role, were you successful on your level? Yes, therefore the line needs to be drawn where you can move forward and use this as an opportunity to look for growth. I know I've been very open with some friends of mine when I was Mabry Don myself a while ago, a few years ago. I look back and go, I would have never left. But I wasn't in a good space probably in the last year of my employment. And I probably, I wasn't very happy. I certainly wasn't healthy mentally, you know, in terms of work-life balance, all those things. 
 So it was the best thing that happened to me. So it's firstly being able to look at the situation by zooming out. And recognising a job loss, for example, or a pivot in the moment isn't an end to your story. It's a chapter ending. 
 So it's shifting the perspective if this is happening to me, to this is happening for me. To regain that control. - Control is such a really key element that you feel in these moments is lost. 
 So it's first and foremost is about taking that back. 

 Rose | 09:00
Yeah, I agree. And I think I left a government agency job was a law enforcement agency job. And I took a redundancy package from there. And because in the last year, I was not in the right space mentally. I was. Postnatal depression and just some other stuff was going on with me. And I regretted leaving there for a long time, I thought, because the job defined who I was or I thought it did. I thought I was going to be a customs officer. I was going to be a customs officer forever. That was my plan. I was going to be collector of customs. I was going to run a department. I was going to do all this stuff. That was my plan. And when I left, I felt like a part of me had been torn away. And it was devastating. And I went further into depression and I actually had a mental breakdown. 
 So, yeah, so, you know, putting all your sort of eggs in one basket and defining your life in a role or job or whatever is really not good for you. 

 Jack | 10:08
And you've hit the nail on the head and I can build on that so much more in terms of From my lens and my history, you know, in that role that I end up leaving, I was by friends, family, people in the industry I was working in. They knew me by that name. I won't say the business name, but say I worked for Nokia. People called me Nokia Jack. I'm so linked with my identity and I completely agree with you and I remember as well when it first happened I went down before I went up. Where people, because obviously there's financial elements, you know, how, if people can take a little bit of time off to, you know, go through the process. 
 Some people can't. Some people go straight into another role and that's really difficult. But if you can afford to take a little bit of time, that grieving process, if anything, to let go is so important because you're absolutely spot on. You need to be able to recognize, and a really great friend of mine said to me at the time, and I use the Nokia jacket example, you know, you've been this What are you going to be like? Imagine what you can be like just being Jack. And he was spot on right because that was like yourself it was so wedded to who I was that I was doing that all the time And you're not able to see, what could I do? And that's part of the process of being able to let go of the situation, recognize it's a situation and a scenario that you've gone through and you've learned through it. You probably got spilt some resilience through it, and that's a great thing. And now you'd be able to see what potential opportunities are out there for you because it allows you, it forces you in many ways. To realign what's important to you. What are what I call your non-negotiables? What are things that going into any role or any work environment or any career that now are really absolutely vital to you that might not have been 10 years ago when you got the last job? And that could be working from home environments. It could be salary. It could be a stress-free environment. It could be, you know, I actually just want to do X, Y role and not have the pressure of having to develop all the time that certain environments have. It might be taking my kids to school on a Friday. 
 You know, that's vital to me. So you can iron out these things. With that perspective of flowing, hang on, I don't have to be an accountant, a salesperson, a person in marketing, a finance person. Is it what I want to do? 

 Rose | 12:33
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, and taking that time away is really, if you can, of course, I mean, most times when you left a role, you know, you get a fairly good severance package. 
 So you can take that time away. I mean, if it's only a couple of weeks just to get your feet. Back on the ground and find out who you are and, you know, away from that particular role because, you know, when you've, invested yourself so heavily into a role and that's who you're known as and and you identify yourself as that it's it's you need that time away to get your brain unscrambled and find out who the hell you are and you know go and smell the roses. 

 Jack | 13:18
Absolutely. I think it's okay for people to wallow a little bit, you know, have a couple of days and if you if it's hit you that hard, grieve, allow yourself to grieve, you know, be on the sofa, watch Netflix for a day, doesn't matter, just don't make it a week. 
 So it's about allowing yourself to process, but not to go on that slippery slope. And the final thing is a huge thing, as you alluded to as well, it's if you can do it. If what I'd recommend for anyone that gets a redundancy or layoff and does get a decent payout is use it as an opportunity for time. Because time is the one thing we so often take for granted. And it's, I've never got time for this, I'm too busy for this and too busy for this. 
 So often when people are made redundant They either put it into their mortgage or buy a new car, go on a holiday and do X, Y, Z. None of these things are wrong. There's no right or wrong. My recommendation is to use this as an opportunity to literally buy you time. And what I mean by that is I recommend people take that lump sum, put it into a savings account, whatever they have, and then they literally organize a direct debit into their own account every month. 
 So they're still getting effectively paid money. Like they were when they were employed. And obviously, they can determine the amount whatever they choose. But that means they might be able to set up a six-month period of getting an income effectively. That's coming into your account and going, right, I can take a month off and go away or I can use this time to do a course I can network, I can work on my resume because now I've got to do all this automatic make sure it's tailored to everyone else that I didn't know it was 10 years ago and it's got this AI thing that now we kind of have to work through that wasn't there 10 years ago. You can use that time. To learn these things and to assess what's your non-negotiables, what roles, what's your purpose now versus what it was without the pressure of, I've got to be back work next month because I've got this lump sum and now throwing it in there. 

 Rose | 15:19
Yeah, I agree. I mean, don't be wasteful. It's what I did. I took the kids that took the family on holidays up to the Gold Coast and, you know, paid off the house and. 
 And then we moved to the Gold Coast and we bought a business and, you know, really, you I didn't give myself enough time to, you know, do the grieving of the job. I just kept myself busy and that was really bad. 

 Jack | 15:43
So easily done though, keeping ourselves busy because it's a great avoidance technique. You don't need to do the nasty horrible stuff that we went through because I'm going forward. This is positive. Going forward is the right thing I'm told to go forward all the time. 
 So it's such an easy trap to fall into. 

 Rose | 15:58
So how can we create healthier, more authentic workplace cultures that promote employee empowerment and well-being with this family culture? 

 Jack | 16:08
- Stop saying family for the first time. Firstly, it's an easy one. Culture is a funny one, right? And I think So many people have a different perception of culture. 
 You know, it's pizza on a Friday afternoons, but does that really create culture? And I think businesses are really... It does start from the top, but it's a really challenging dynamic because you don't want force culture, you know, forcing people to... To turn up at an event when they really don't want to, because it's like greenhorning. It's not authentic. It takes time. You can't just start a business and go, we've got culture. Culture starts from behaviors first and foremost through leadership. 
 So we're talking about communication, valuing your team, valuing your employees, what's important to them, you know, communication from the top to the bottom, that builds culture, first and foremost, you know, it's. I'll give you an example. You can have I'll go back to mobile phones again. 
 So a company selling mobile phones, And they're doing all these big events for everyone and they're taking them on days to the races and this and the other. But if they're all forced to work 18 hours a day and they go home absolutely exhausted. That's the point. 
 So it's about valuing people first and foremost. And, you know, that does in terms of their wage, their value in the market, it comes from development opportunities. 
 You know, there's so many industries around that. Don't look at development of that staff and employees. And develop them, you know, look to support them through training or coaching or development programs so they can grow, especially the younger generation. It's here's a job, off you go. And we'll give you pizza and a Christmas party. 

 Rose | 17:59
Yeah, I've been in a lot of cultures like that. They think that it is a culture, but it isn't really. It's like those wonderful team building days where you sit in an office and listen to someone babble on about rubbish that you have no bloody interest in. 
 Honestly, how is that team building? That's just ticking a box. It's not helping anybody. And it's not part of the culture. Trust me. 

 Jack | 18:28
No, I remember it's a great old saying. He said it decades ago, but Richard Branson said it brilliantly. I'll try not to butcher it, but he said... What did he say? He said, develop and treat your staff and employees so they're ready enough to grow and leave. Treat them so they don't want to. 

 Rose | 18:50
That's it. Yeah, that was recently posted on LinkedIn, actually. I actually saw that same quote. 
 Yeah. So there you go. 

 Jack | 18:57
It's decades old, but it's so still appropriate because you want... You know, you want people to, you know, we all have bad days at work. It is called work for a reason. 
 You know, there's this unbalanced pressure to love your job every day. You know, sometimes it'd be nice to go to the beach instead of working, and that's okay. But you want to enjoy the working environment you're in, and that comes from... How each other employees are treated with balance. That's in terms of your leadership, like I said, communication, remuneration, development opportunities. A great example actually is even what I heard recently, and it's quite prominent now, is in terms of balance outside of work. 
 So I know that's that law that's just come in for employees, businesses under 18. They can't be disturbed out of work hours. But even... I've been working with one of my clients around this, around annual leave. There's a big... 
 You know, there's such a difference with certain companies, how they approach annual leave. I've seen I put annual leave in, just gets ticked. Cool. Awesome. I don't mention to my leader. Don't need to because I earn it and it's OK. Whereas others.. They need to prove it. To their leader. Why they should Be going on annual leave. And... 
 You know, they are asked, well, you know, it's really busy that time of year, we've got to hit our targets, got to hit our sales. So do you have to take it that time? Can you go another time? No. It's my annual leave. I've earned that. It's my right. That's culture. That sort of behaviour drives culture. Or not. 

 Rose | 20:33
Yeah, that's absolutely correct. Yes, I totally 100% agree. Now, you can find Jack on LinkedIn. His favourite place to hang out is Instagram. All right. He's offering a free 30-minute intro coaching session. Yes. And his website at gleananpc.com. 
 So go and check him out there. Tell us all about this free session, Jack. 

 Jack | 20:59
Yeah, I mean, it's something that I decided to do when I first started the business, probably about a month after I started the business, because I recognized that coaching. And you get exposed to it as well yourself, Rose, it doesn't always have the best reputation. The loudest people in the market, I think. Of unrealistic. Offers not to be ridiculous there, but you know, I mean they put these big things. I'll give you a seven-step program to guarantee you nine figures next week. 
 Yeah, and it's just I won't use the word, but it's not true. And it's. It lowers the authenticity of the industry. Therefore, it builds a lack of trust in people. And therefore, people are wary of it. And on top of that, people are naturally cautious about asking for help. 
 So the combination of those two factors, and you've got to like the person who's coaching you. You've got to have a connection. It's like sales. People buy from people. They like. 
 So what I wanted to do was offer a 30 minute. Introduction to anybody that's open or interested. On exploring being coached. And I'm there to listen. I'm there to understand initially what they're comfortable sharing in terms of their challenge, whether it's they're new to sales, new to leadership, experienced in either, they're in career transitions, whatever it might be, it's a free opportunity for them to share what they're comfortable sharing. I retort with, this is what I feel would be needed in terms of a timeline and how I'm going to approach it. I don't offer a guarantee five weeks, then we're done because that's not fair. On them. I had someone ask me if I could do that because they said, " there's a company in the UK that does that, and they're offering a 12-week program, and then I'm going to be all better." I said, okay, well, that's interesting. I could do that, but what if... What if we get everything sorted out in six? Did I just then screw you over and charge you double? 
 So it's about taking them through that journey during that 30-minute session as well with no expectations on their part, equally with an understanding that some people aren't going to like me. Do you know what I mean? Because they've got to like you. 
 So they, you know, we talk for a little bit and they're allowed to go away and have a think and go actually this is something that I really want and I want to progress and tiptoe into it or that's not for me and that's okay. 

 Rose | 23:22
Absolutely. No. And that's the way it should be too, because you've got to like the person who's coaching you. If you don't, you know, it, doesn't build for a good relationship and the coaching process just ends up being nothing.

 
 Jack | 23:37
100%. I seek, I approach it with, and you mentioned it before, with emotional intelligence, first and foremost. 
 So I don't go into any session or any introduction session with preconceived ideas. I do ask them to answer a couple of questions beforehand, but I lead with empathy first and foremost. 
 So I seek to understand very much and, you know, as much as they're comfortable understanding. Telling me as well and I never pry because it's really important that it's again comes back to that authenticity. 

 Rose | 24:04
Absolutely. Jack, it has been an absolute pleasure as always. Thank you so much. Do you have any words of wisdom that you'd like to share with our audience today? 

 Jack | 24:14
All right. Considering what we've been talking about, Rose, I think I'll leave you with... 
 Yeah, specifically about our own setbacks. You nearly mentioned it absolutely spot on. 
 So I was like, she's going to steal my thunder, what I'm thinking about saying. But setbacks don't define you. They refine you. Gordon Ramsay said a brilliant statement, one line I saw an interview a while ago about adversity. And he said, don't fear the storm, get comfortable dancing in the rain and I love that it's brilliant, so whether it's career loss, health challenges, leadership struggle, you've always got a chance to rewrite that story. As alluded to before, it's not the end of the story, it's the end of a chapter. And like you said yourself, which I love that you called that out because you're spot on, your job, or your title, or your career is isn't who you are. Not even close. Your resilience is about bouncing back! Leadership and culture isn't about who's got the loudest voice in the room. It's about being the most connected and intelligent one. If you hold on to these things, you won't just survive these transitions. I guarantee you'll thrive through them. 

 Rose | 25:23
Absolutely, Jack, that is brilliant advice. Thank you so much for sharing that. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much. And I will chat with you again really soon. 

 Jack | 25:31
My pleasure. Looking forward to it as always. Bye. 

 Outro | 25:37
You've been listening to Talking with the Experts with Rose Davidson. The podcast that brings you real stories, bold insights, and strategies that work. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast channel so you never miss an episode and dive into our full library anytime at TalkingWithTheExperts.com. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and keep talking with the experts.