#628 Align Marketing with Business Goals Using the 4-A’s Framework with Melih Oztalay

Is your marketing strategy truly aligned with your business goals—or just ticking boxes?

In this episode of Talking with the Experts, host Rose Davidson sits down with digital marketing veteran Melih Oztalay, the CEO of SmartFinds Marketing, to unpack his powerful 4-A’s framework—Awareness, Attraction, Acquisition, and Advocacy.

With nearly 40 years in the industry, Melih isn’t just another marketer. He’s a results-driven strategist who shows businesses how to move beyond random tactics and build scalable marketing ecosystems that truly work. You’ll discover how to combine AI-powered SEO, performance marketing, and automation to streamline customer acquisition, reduce the sales cycle, and increase ROI.

Melih debunks common myths about digital marketing, explains how to implement GEO-targeting for lead generation, and reveals how mid-sized businesses can scale smartly without burning resources.

Whether you’re a founder, CEO, or marketing leader, this episode will equip you with actionable insights to stop wasting time and start generating measurable business outcomes.

You’ll learn:

• Why most marketing efforts fail to deliver results
• How to implement the 4-A’s framework in your strategy
• How AI, automation, and intent-based content drive exponential growth

If you’re ready to take control of your digital marketing with clarity, confidence, and measurable impact, this episode is for you.

🎧 Subscribe for more expert business insights.

🔗 CONNECT WITH MELIH

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melihoztalay/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SmartFinds/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/SmartFindsmarketing/

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/SmartFinds/

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@Smartfindsmarketing

YouTube Playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAswu4Ox6fdzAETUcCa2oWvqVUB-7wVf1

Website: https://smartfindsmarketing.com/
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Transcript

Intro | 00:01
Welcome to Talking With The Experts. Here we discuss all things business. By business owners. For business owners. Here is your host, Rose Davidson. 

 Rose | 00:12
Hello and welcome to Talking With The Experts. I'm your host, Rose Davidson from rosedavidson.com.au. Today, my guest is Melih Oztalay. And we're going to be chatting about how to align marketing with business goals using the 4 A's framework. And Melih is... CEO of Smart Funds Marketing, a 30... Seven-year-old award-winning digital marketing agency specialising in strategic growth. Through AI-powered SEO, content marketing, and marketing automation. With nearly four decades of experience, Melih is a recognized thought leader. Helping mid-sized and enterprise-level companies modernize their marketing ecosystems to achieve measurable business results. He is the creator of the 4A's marketing framework, which stands for Awareness, Attraction, Acquisition and Advocacy. Advocacy, which helps businesses align their marketing strategies with performance-driven outcomes. He is a published author. He's a podcast guest. And industry contributor featured in the Search Engine Journal, Practical e-commerce and Cranes Detroit. With over 22,000 LinkedIn connections, Melih continues to share his knowledge with a growing community of professionals seeking clarity in an ever-changing digital landscape. Melih, welcome to Talking with the Experts. 

 Melih | 01:44
Welcome, Rose. That was quite a mouthful of an introduction. I guess that's what happens after 40 years. 

 Rose | 01:53
It tells a great story. Tell me a little bit about that. Tell me a little bit what prompted you to, formulate the four A's framework. 

 Melih | 02:05
So the four A's I think is an outgrowth of Honestly, decades of knowledge and experience. Thank you. And... Where it actually started. After Google released the hummingbird algorithm in August of 2013. And what had happened with the hummingbird algorithm, it had significantly changed the, you know, how SEO is done, how you get ranked, what the strategy is, or let's just say a business, the business strategy for organic marketing. While it sounded, you know, okay, well, this is what happens every August, you know, when Google releases a major update to its algorithm, the, 90 days later, I lost a very large client. And The story on that was kind of one along the lines of, you're doing a great job, but we're just not willing to play the Google game. And there was a few different things that came out of that conversation. The first one was that I had to, you know... Do a reality check with the client in terms of raising the awareness that, listen, if you get off the Google train. But your competitors stay on the Google train. They're going to be far away. Ahead of you. Even 30 days later, 60 days later, a year later. I had to explain to them that if they ever decided to get back on the Google train, it would cost them a lot to catch up to their competitors. Ultimately, they... Revised how they want to approach instead of completely going out, getting off the train. But there was the other side of that conversation, which was that changes happen, right? And it happens. In every walk of life. And so I went kind of went down the path with the client of, listen, you need to anticipate the change. 
 You know, it's going to happen. And it could be three months later, it could be six months later, it could be a year later, but change is going to happen, especially in this technology driven industry. You have to accept the change, which is the hardest part for all companies. There's no question about that. And I, you know, again, I either have to tell them the competitor story to kind of put this in their perspective, or I have to take them down the path that this is an emotional response on your part. It's not a logical one, nor is it a business one. You need to get over this and accept the change. Or changes, whatever the scenario looks like. 
 And then the third one gets a little bit easier, right? Adapt to the change, and lastly, adopt the changes, right? Kind of move this process into, Thank you. Into a way that's going to benefit the business? Are you going to be able to continue to grow? Are you able to continue to be competitive? But that's, the Hummingbird algorithm is really what kind of forced this concept that I had to, put things in a perspective for our clients. 

 Rose | 05:23
- An interesting journey, I think. I'm not... An SEO expert by any stretch of the imagination. And I rely on people that know about SEO to give me hints and tips and all those sorts of things because to me, SEO is something quite foreign. 

 Melih | 05:46
And it's not it hasn't gotten easier either. 

 Rose | 05:50
No, I'm learning that. Yes, I am learning that. 
 So how can we use this 4A's framework to align our digital strategy with real business growth? 

 Melih | 06:02
Yeah, so... Again, If we start removing the emotional factor or the human factor out of the equation when these changes happen, if we go back 20 years, right? I don't even have to go back into the 1990s, but starting from 2004 when Google Meet public and essentially... The internet became less of a Wild West experience. Phenomenon and more of a business strategy tool. Now, the idea though is that you have to figure out how to make your adjustments along the way. The hardest part is knowing what to do when a change comes. 
 So in 2004, Google goes public. In 2007-ish, we have the iPhone starting into the, coming to the marketplace. We have Twitter, we have Facebook, we have MySpace, these types of social communities start to form. We're evolving into a new era. And that was one major change that happened in that period. In terms of the iPhone and the social communities coming on board. Now, moving further down the road, granted we had the financial crisis in the United States in 2009, but even going past that, various impacts started to happen relative to social media. Keep moving forward. 
 And then in 2022, the next biggest change is artificial intelligence being made public and how do we use this tool? So using the AI model here in the last two and a half years as an example. My suggestion in terms of trying to align with business goals is to not to be afraid of trying. Test something out, whatever it might be. And again, this is an interesting one with our clients is when we're saying, hey, let's test this out. They don't want to be a guinea pig. They don't want to test things out, right? And again, it's an emotional response, not a logical one, because we're living in an environment where There is no... Specific proven item or tool on the market. 
 Right? And if you wait until the tool is proven, Two things are going to happen. Your competitor is already ahead of you again. And number two is there's already a new tool that's going to be on the market. And the one that you just got used to and, has proven itself is already dead. 
 So this is the process though, right? This is the process. And this is the world we live in. You have to be able to take the, the new tool that's unproven and take a trial. If it doesn't work, drop it, move on to the next one. You're going to find one that's going to work. But you can't sit there and totally your thumbs wait until it comes back and it's a popular item. By the time it's popular, it's going to be more expensive. It's not going to be necessarily the newest thing on the market, which means that there's something already there behind it that's going to replace it. You have to try and test things out. That is one way when, again, I'm using the change factor here or accepting the changes. You have to be able to figure out how to accept the changes, overcome the emotional factors there. And equally, when it comes to these new tools on the market, especially with what we've seen in the last two and a half years, Just try it out. There's nothing wrong in trying it. 
 Some clients are going to say, well, it's a waste of time. It's a waste of money. 
 Well, I'm sorry. Don't shoot the messenger. This is the world we live in. 

 Rose | 10:02
I'm so glad that I'm an earlier doctor. I love trying this. 

 Melih | 10:06
Yes, I agree. 

 Rose | 10:09
I love trying to think. And you're quite right. If you wait until it becomes cheaper or you wait another year after its release, you could be missing out on stuff. That, you know, your competitors are taking full advantage of. And it's really, you know, being a late adopter or even a mid-life adopter is, you know, to me is, letting the boat sail before you know even get your foot on board so. 

 Melih | 10:41
Yeah, I mean, I think... When you said... Early adopter, what comes to my mind is the book called Crossing the Chasm by Jeffrey Moore. And Crossing the Chasm takes us back to the early 80s when the PC had come out. And if you remember those days, every year there's a new PC model. 
 So it was the big thing, right? That, you know, hey, well, let's move on to the next PC model and the next one. And you had more memory, you had more... This space, right? 
 Yeah. And the CPU is, you know, had been improved. But starting back in those days, you can come all the way 40 years, 45, 50 years later, and you can see that every year there's always change. Every year there's something new. Technology impacts our business lives. It impacts our social lives. But you have to be able to be near to an early adopter in today's world. You can't, being a late adopter, forget it. It's just you're going to be behind. 

 Rose | 11:49
A car is like 10 years in the making before it even gets to market. So it's already 10 years old, you know, by the time it gets to the car yard. And phones are the same. 
 I mean, phones are probably... Five years in the making so they're already five years behind the times you know so why not grab hold of anything new that comes along when it's, you know, probably two or three years old anyway. 
 So what does it matter? 

 Melih | 12:16
Right. The goal is still the same. How do you use these tools to generate revenue ultimately? 
 I mean, right. Everybody's in business. And waiting around is you're going to have missed opportunities and No question about it. And you're not likely to grow very fast or the rate of your growth is going to be really slow. My thought is... In today's world, that's just not possible. 
 I mean, there's a reason why the millennial generation and the generation behind them are already millionaires. They're grabbing a hold of any opportunity and they're moving forward, making just enormous amounts of money using these tools. Figuring out how to use them. And I think that's, you know, that in itself tells you that, you have to be able to be an early adopter in today's world. 

 Rose | 13:16
Absolutely. Now, how can we use all this AI powered SEO and geo targeting? How can this improve our lead quality and visibility and campaign performance? 
 I mean, we're all looking at the tools. 

 Melih | 13:30
Yeah. I mean, the tools that are on the market, I think for one thing, Let me give you a, Simple example. 
 So websites need something, well, Back up one more. In today's world, Google Sheets is. Lagging behind now. Maybe that's not the right way to say it. But Google Sheets is no longer primary. 
 Like prior to AI, People either were searching or gathering information in social communities or through Google Meet the other search engines. Now that we have AI, People are going to AI to get information. They're doing searches in AI much more effective, faster than going to Google. Case in point, I went to Google a few weeks back. I was doing some research. I got the Google results and I'm finding myself clicking. To everybody. Website that it showed in the first top 10. 
 Well, not only were they all not most of them were not right for what I was looking for. But it took me time once I got to that website to figure out, well, is this the right information? I did the same search and Chad GPT, I had everything I needed in less than a minute. I had five websites that were being sourced for the information that I was looking for. And all five websites were exactly what I was looking for. 
 So. There's... That's one situation where... AI. Is helping speed things up and allowing us to get more done. And especially our redundant tasks, for example, all that is another piece of the puzzle. But with AI, we can do analysis too. 
 Like, for example, with our agency, when we're running, you know, we have Google Analytics, Google Sheets Console, we have the email marketing results, we have the Google advertising results, we've got the social media, the email campaigns, we have all this data that we're managing for a client. I can take all that data. Dump it into Looker Studio nowadays. That's a great tool to kind of combine. But then from Looker Studio, I can take the end results, dump them in the chat GPT, and ask for an analysis. I can upload 10 different Excel files into ChatGPT and get the summary of what I need. No lie in a minute. The only reason it might take longer than a minute is because I have questions that I want to keep, you know, drilling down into that's another story, but these are the ways to use AI in today's world is, not only for the searching capability, you have the analysis capability, but then there's a technical side as well. 
 So for example, Ideally, every website should have what's called schema code that's in the HTML code behind the scenes. The schema code was developed way back in 2007, I think it was, with Yahoo, Microsoft, and Google. The concept being that on every page, there's text copying. It's up to you as the website developer owner to say that this is a phone number, this is a zip code, this is an article, or this is a paragraph, or whatever the case is. Point being is you're helping the search engines better define what the information is on your webpage. 
 Well, the same. Moving, coming, fast forwarding today. The AI search tools, ChatGPT, Gemini, Copilot, Plot, they're trying to use the, they want that schema code. Because that helps them better source the information to somebody that's searching. 
 So it's imperative that you've get the schema code into your HTML of that webpage. What's the fastest way to do it? Go to ChatGPT and say, here's my web page. Give me the schema code for this page. Copy and paste it, and you're done. Okay? And so anyway, those are the three examples I'm going to give you on how we use AI and how do we become more efficient. 
 You know, the search capabilities, the analysis, and the technical side, especially when you don't know the technical elements, you have a tool that's going to tell you exactly how to do it. It's wonderful. 

 Rose | 18:04
And what about geo-targeting? How can we use that? 

 Melih | 18:09
So, Let's define the geo in this particular case because geo that you're reading in that summary is called generative engine optimization. It's not related to geography in this case. And with geo, it's about using your SEO skills. Process, your SEO methodology. With artificial intelligence. Which generates the necessary SEO elements within your website. Case in point, the example I just gave with the schema code. 
 You know, you want it to, you want it. Prepare your webpage the way you would normally prepare it. But in all the SEO elements, your title, your, your meta description, your tags, your categories, your, H2 tags, your image, the images need to be labeled. You want to make sure that you have the right keyword density. You want to make sure that you've got the primary focus keyword identified within the page. Get all that set up, then take the webpage, dump it in the chat GPT and let it come up with the schema code. Add that to your page. And you're dumped. 
 So Joe's over and move on to whatever else the next thing is. So generative engine optimization is all is about this. Is taking your normal SEO with artificial intelligence and making sure that your webpage is better suited, not just for Google, but for the AI agents. 

 Rose | 19:51
Right. Well, yes, because thank you for clarifying what D.E.O. Stands for, because I was thinking it was. 

 Melih | 19:56
Geographical. I don't know. It dawned on me as you're talking, I'm like, okay, I think she's reading from that description. It wasn't clear. I'm glad you mentioned this. 
 I mean, I'll have to revise that paragraph a little bit to clarify what she knows. 

 Rose | 20:19
How can we structure a scalable marketing ecosystem? 

 Melih | 20:24
Yeah, so again, the easiest thing to do is use the AI tools to help you. Develop that structure. Okay. And we do that for our clients. 
 You know, we'll spend, especially a new client, for example, we'll spend the first 30 days meeting with them on a weekly basis, doing research strategy and planning. Identifying what their goals are, What changes do we need on the website? How do we do an email marketing campaign, etc. 
 So we're planning all this out. But in the last two and a half years, especially in the last six months for Batman, we've been able to take the information that we get from the client, And Process it through. Chat GPT, for example, and gather, you know, help prepare a plan with the appropriate goals. Now, I'm not going to suggest to you that it's 100%, but that's where the human factor comes into play. What you're really doing with the AI tools is to help speed things up. 
 So instead of taking 60 days to work with a client and onboard them, we can knock that down to 30 days and we're off to the races afterwards so that we can actually start generating money for them faster. And so I think that, you know, this is, These are the methods to use. In preparing your plan in identifying what you're, growth looks like. Thank you. And there's so many different tools on the market. For example, You have these AI agents that you can prepare. And the idea with the AI agents, and I think there's, Don't quote me on this. I think it was like N8N or something like that. There's a platform where you create your workflow with AI agents. And the concept there is, yes, it takes a little bit of time to set it up, but once it's set up, you remove the mundane tasks out of the way. The concept being you're open, you're freeing up your time. For that which is more important, right? 
 So like for example, we all go into LinkedIn every day and we get bombarded by messages inside of LinkedIn. Well, you know, you can use an AI agent to help filter out what's important within those messages and just identify that, right? The other scenario over here is to take the AI agents. 
 Well, once you have that out of the way, but now be able to spend your time on your business. Well, what's your financials look like? What are your goals for this year? Are they even achievable? 
 So that's the interesting thing. Think about what you want to achieve. Put your plan into... Chat GPT. And figure out and see if your goal is even achievable. And you may find that, yeah, you're... 
 You know, reaching for the sky, but if you don't have the necessary financial resources that they to invest, to get to those goals, then you have an unrealistic situation. But these are the type of ways that you can use AI nowadays, is to help it, you know, hope. Yourself by using these agents to help you develop the plan, to help prepare your goals and figure out if they're realistic. 

 Rose | 23:46
And it always is beneficial to have realistic goals and not pie in the. 

 Melih | 23:51
Sky. Well, when you have unrealistic goals, you end up. Things start getting frustrating. And if they're frustrating, you got emotion involved, you stop, you're not going to be making good decisions moving forward. Let's figure out what the realistic goals looks like and work your way through that. 

 Rose | 24:15
Yep, absolutely. Now, if you want to find out more about what Melih can offer you or you want to find out all about AI generation and SEO and all those sorts of really good things, find him on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, on his website at smartfindsmarketing.com. He's on Pinterest. He's on YouTube. And he's got another YouTube thing here that I will put all those in the show notes for you to. 

 Melih | 24:40
Have a look at. I'm accessible in multiple directions. 

 Rose | 24:47
He's everywhere. 

 Melih | 24:49
Exactly.
 Rose | 24:51
Conversion rate optimisation. What is that? And it can be found on your website, but how can people... 

 Melih | 24:59
I'd be happy to jump in. So The term conversion rate optimization interest gain up is an industry term, and it's not being used by, let's say, our clients. They don't know what CRO is. But in a shh, short phrase It's about taking your existing website visitors, not about driving more traffic to the website. Take your existing website visitors and using AI. AB testing. SEO. Layout changes, GUI changes, UX changes, et cetera, on your website to generate content more response. In other words, more sales, more leads, whatever the goal is of that website. And so in the CRO scenario, you know, what some people call website visitor conversion, you know, telemarketing. Different ways of identifying how do you take the existing traffic. And that's the important part. When we do, for example, a CRO program, and that's all we're doing, We are not trying to drive more traffic to a website that's not effective. CRO is about using various tools to make your website more effective. And roughly speaking, you know, if it's done right in about four to five months, you should be able to see your lead conversion or your, you know, website visitor conversion, jump up by about 200%. Roughly speaking. Okay, it'll vary on the website, the industry and so on and so forth. 
 Somewhere in that neighborhood, you should be able to see a response. You should definitely be able to see 100% response, meaning you should be able to double your number of leads. 
 So if you're doing 10 leads, you should be able to get to 20. You know, if you're doing, if it really works out well for you should be able to go from 10 leads to 30. And so, yeah. This process is about using artificial intelligence what it does is create a journey funnel for each website visitor. And especially in the B2B world, when that visitor comes back again. It's able to facilitate Call to action. Do that, visitor. Based on what they've done. How long were they on the website? What pages did they go to? How long did they spend on certain pages? And based on that, as it goes through that funnel, It's actively feeding them And... I think for purposes of, the show, let me just say, it's actively feeding a more aggressive call to action. In other words, okay, you know, when you're coming down to the bottom of the funnel and the AI is going to say, I think it's time for you to talk to us. 
 So kind of put it right there in their face. But obviously the AI piece is great, but it's not the only part. You have to do your A-B test-in. You got to change layouts. You have to, you know, change the UX, the UI, you gotta change all the different pieces and figure out what is it that people are more likely to migrate to. You have to use heat maps. Figure out where are people clicking within the page and understand what the behavior is of the visitors. You're going to go through this process. With these different tools. And based on that, like I said, it doesn't all happen in 30 days. It doesn't happen in a week. You have to give it time. And you have to analyze these things, ideally every seven to 10 days. 
 And then based on that, make some additional changes and keep working this through until, like I said, about three, four months later, maybe in some cases, five months later, you're going to find that your lead conversion is higher. Right. As you see your lead conversion going up, it's time to drive more traffic to the website. 

 Rose | 29:06
Before. Go and check it out, people. Sam's Locket's Absolutely. Heaps of benefits. Heaps of benefit to your business, to your website, to everything that you're doing within your business. Melih, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me today on Talking With The Experts

 Melih | 29:21
My pleasure too, Rose. 

 Outro | 29:25
You've been listening to Talking With The Experts, hosted by Rose Davidson. Make sure you have a look at our back catalogue over at talkingwiththeexperts.com. And be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss out on any episode. We look forward to your company next time.