#604 Fábio Lichtler: Unlocking SEO-Big Wins for Small Business Growth

What if SEO wasn’t as complicated—or expensive—as you think?

In this episode of Talking with the Experts, I sit down with SEO strategist and web designer Fábio Lichtler to uncover the real opportunities small businesses have to win with search engines like Google—without breaking the bank.

For more than four years, Fábio has helped businesses—from local shops to global agencies—use SEO to attract the right traffic and turn it into paying clients. And he’s here to share his simple, proven roadmap.

We explore:

• How to start or enhance your organic traffic
• Free and affordable SEO tools that work
• Real-world tips to convert visitors into loyal clients

Whether you’re DIY-ing your website or already have some traffic, this conversation is packed with value. Fábio makes SEO feel doable, even if you’re not tech-savvy or don’t have a big team.

He also breaks down why SEO isn’t just a marketing tactic—it’s a long-term investment in your visibility and sustainability as a business.

Tune in to learn how you can move from being invisible online to ranking confidently—and converting effectively.

💡 You don’t need to outspend your competition. You just need to outsmart them.

🎧 Listen now to learn how to turn Google into your best business partner.

Liked this episode? Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review.

✨ CONNECT WITH FABIO

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabio-lichtler/

Website: https://www.winno.ch/

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Transcript

Voiceover | 00:01
Welcome to Talking With The Experts. Here we discuss all things business. By business owners. For business owners. Here is your host, Rose Davidson. 

 Rose | 00:12
Hello and welcome to Talking With The Experts. I'm your host, Rose Davidson from rosedavidson.com.au. And today it's my very great pleasure to introduce you to Fabio and I'm sure he'll let me not pronounce his last name because it's a bit difficult. Now, Fabio is going to be talking to us about all things SEO and how SEO is a huge chance for small businesses to find new clients. Fabio runs his web design and SEO agency and has done for over four years. He's worked with dozens of companies to increase organic traffic and convert it into paying customers. His focus is on Instagram strategies and individual approaches for each business. Whether it's a small local business or globally operating agency, he loves the challenge of a new business. Fabio, welcome to Talking With The Experts. It is such a pleasure to meet you. 

 Fabio | 01:05
Hello, Rose. Thank you for having me. 

 Rose | 01:07
Lovely tell me about your story a little bit about how you and why you love SEO so much. 

 Fabio | 01:14
So everything actually just started with the web design. Many years ago. I think it's almost eight years ago I built my first website and that was the moment it caught me because websites are in theory very simple to make and it's just a few lines of code and if you put them on the right server every person on this earth can see it. 
 So it's very simple. You just need a computer or you need a phone or whatever, and you can just see what I just did. And that was Yeah, that really caught me. And from there on my journey began. I started doing websites with different tools, trying different things. At that time I was just 15 years old. 
 So yeah, it was a really interesting journey. I did some of an apprenticeship in informatics, but always the web design thing kept following my path. And yeah, then I started doing more and more websites. And after finishing my apprenticeship, I Started my agency with my business partner. And there we already had started doing SEO a little bit because it was always a topic we found really interesting and what you can do on a website so people and Google Drive it. You land on the first page and So everything started and I think SEO we're doing like for over four years now and web design for even more. 

 Rose | 02:46
Wow, that's an interesting journey. I mean, I've built, I've got three websites that I've built myself. I'm sure the SEO is not as great as it should be. 
 So I'm Looking forward to chatting with you about that. How we can get started and leverage the organic traffic that lands on our website. 

 Fabio | 03:07
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are many things to do always. And many things that can have... Pretty big leverage even though they're actually pretty small to do. 

 Rose | 03:17
Yeah, so what are some of the free tools and some of the lesser expensive ones that we can use to start our SEO? 

 Fabio | 03:26
So I think the most important one that many people actually even ignore or don't use as they could is the Google Sheets Console, which is absolutely free. That helps you index your website on Google. And it's a tool from Google directly, so it's pretty good and you can see how your organic traffic is, which keywords bring your traffic. All of that stuff. 
 So that's actually the only 100% trustworthy source of those information and definitely the most important one. I like Screaming Frog. That's a tool you can install, and that's really good to crawl your entire website so you can find about all technical details and where you're having issues and where... All of that stuff's happening. 
 So that's a really important one. There's a free version that's absolutely most users. And... Then I think there's a Chrome extension or browser extension which is called detailed SEO and with one click you have very easy to understand to do's and you can see errors and stuff that's happening on your site. 
 So you can check every single page. And yeah, it's very good to start. It gives you a good starting point where it can go from. They're wonderful. 

 Rose | 04:54
They have wonderful tools. What else is there in the toolbox? 

 Fabio | 05:00
So for all about keyword research and competitor analysis and stuff, I definitely like Ahrefs the most. I think it's one of the biggest SEO tools. Alternatives are SEMrush, for example. But it's like every SEO guy has his favourite one. And I think with this tool Slack, you're set pretty good. 
 And then it starts with many smaller ones for helping you do better copy or helping you indexing pages faster to Google and stuff. But that's just details. 

 Rose | 05:34
So how much, I mean, all of those tools sound really great. And I know I have heard of some of them. Hell ever. If you're not like, really tech savvy. 
 I mean, as you say, it's easy to build a website when you just get, you get a You know, you get onto WordPress, if you're going to do it that way, and then you get a, you know, a plugin or a, template or whatever, like Divi or one of those ones. And use that and it's really simple once you learn to use them how to you know build your pages out but SEO really is a is an art it's an art form I have found and to try and get your page to rank on the first page of Google is really hard. 

 Fabio | 06:24
It is for certain keywords, definitely. 

 Rose | 06:29
Yeah, so what, I mean, how do we know What keywords to use? Is there a tool for that we can find and use on our websites?
 Fabio | 06:41
Yes, absolutely. So Ahrefs is like my preferred one where you can basically just insert a keyword and see how much, it's a rough estimate, and it's never exactly, but a rough estimate on how many times this keyword is searched per month in a country or globally. And that's a really good starting point because From there on, you can go and look for different keywords, like different types of expressing something, or you can just take some seed parts of it. 
 So like maybe a keyword is made out of three or four words, and then you just take one of them, and you can see a list of all keywords that are built with this seed word. From there on you can start and you can find different search intentions and you can find different kinds of ways you can go and then you see a competitor, you insert a competitor and you can see on which keywords they are ranking. 
 And then you see, this is a topic. This is where you could describe, this is a question people are having about my topic. And so from there on, you can really build up. A big thing and start doing lots of research and then really important part is clustering those keywords into different groups. 
 So you start having all many like keyboard clusters of, search intentions. So, Let's say, for example, how to become a podcast host. How to start a podcast. How can I start a podcast? Whatever. Are different keywords, different ways people are searching for actually the same thing. And so then you start looking, what content do you find when you look for that? Is it blog articles? Is it like a landing page with a product to buy or whatever? 
 And then you just do what others are doing and just do it better. Like, do it in more detail, give better examples, have better infographics. And in the end, it's just about helpful content because Google values a lot on how long people... Stay on a page, on a blog article? Do they click on other pages? Or is like the behavior commonly known to be from a person that's irritated. For example, they come on a page, scroll down, leave the page, and go on another search result. This means, or this shows Google Meet they just found wasn't really helpful. 
 So that's a bad sign. And then in the end all technical details and if page speed is good and whatever, it's just secondary. The main thing should always be that you answer problem and help find the solution. 

 Rose | 09:39
That is always important and I think, you know, keeping the person who's found your page engaged and let make them stay on the page for as long as possible. I know that is an important part of, you know, the Google overall analytics and everything like that. 
 So, And knowing your customer obviously is one of the things. And as you said, you know, keeping them engaged and, you know, So selling them a product or a service that they actually need, I think you have to be really, you have to really know your why you're selling or what you're doing or, you know, your product or service. You need to know that why. And that's, to me, is an important factor. 

 Fabio | 10:27
Absolutely. Absolutely. 
 So understanding your audience or your clients and understanding their needs is important. Is essential to build a good SEO strategy. And I think in many aspects of SEO, It's really important to understand your competitors. And why they are doing what they are doing and I mean, some people are, ranking pretty good on Google even though they are doing some weird stuff. But most, I would say, you can see patterns of SEO stuff they're doing. Are they building backlinks? Are they writing a lot of content? Are they, I don't know, Are they building blog content, landing pages, whatever? And when you understand what they are doing and they are ranking like on top positions on Google, there is no point in doing something else because in SEO, it's not about I do what the others don't do. It's like I do what others do and I do even more than that. 
 So if they are building good content and you just start building backlinks, you're. Or the absolutely wrong path. 

 Rose | 11:40
Yeah, I understand that. That's really great information. I wanted to ask a question. 
 Sometimes I get an email from Google Meet say that some of my pages aren't indexing. What does that mean? 

 Fabio | 11:54
That could be many things, but In the end, it's just that Google somehow is not able or not allowed to show. Pages from you. On Google and that can be mostly that's because of technical issues. 
 So you have some rules, some setting that's like preventing Google from showing or your site or I don't know, then you have like duplicate content and whatever. It could be like a hundred things, but that's a really good starting point where you can go in and then see the, analyze the errors and To be honest, that's a really good point where you can just ask chat GPT, "Hey, I keep getting this email from Google." What's about it? 
 And then maybe he starts asking you questions back and then you can gather more information. And to be honest, I think most of the problems, most technical issues are very good to be solved with ChatGPT actually. 

 Rose | 12:54
Yeah, that's a great point. And, you know, what does it mean when a page has a no follow on it? What does that mean? 

 Fabio | 13:02
Nofollow, that's like in a link, you can give that, I say, parameter width, and that means you that no trust is.. Given from this other page. 
 So you can imagine it like this. It's a backlink. It's just another page linking to your site. And This always... Gives some trust to you. Because I mean, there may be a really big website that have lots of traffic, lots of own backlinks, and they link to your site. And this is some kind of recommendation. That is given in the whole website internet stuff to you. And this is a good sign for Google Meet you are trustworthy. Because Google somehow has to determine that you should be taken serious and that you are allowed to be on the first page. And so that's like, yeah, it's kind of a shout out from another page. But there can always be the case that they want to link to you but without Even you trust Why would they do that? Because it's really easy to put a backlink there or they have just some kind of link juice, some trust they can give and they don't want to spend it like, yeah, too much. For example, if you have like big... Big pages. Best example: Instagram. Everybody can put his link in his Instagram description, but Instagram does not want to give trust. 
 Like Instagram, a huge page, does not want to give trust to, I don't know, fraud or scam or whatever. And it would be too easy to build links on there. 
 Still, a backlink with a nofollow is a social mention and helps in a way that Google Meet, okay, you are mentioned somewhere. You're not just a website existing a domain that has never been linked to you are being linked to you're popular but you're not getting trust from this page and so therefore into a good link mix Nofollow links make part. 

 Rose | 15:10
But that's true. Excuse me, that's a good thing because I've got quite a few of those no follows when Google sends me an email to say there's issues with my website. 
 So thank you for that. Makes me feel good. - Fabio, tell me, how can we convert organic traffic? Because That is... One of the most important things about having a website is getting that organic traffic. And so how can we get people to convert? 

 Fabio | 15:40
That's a really good question and there unfortunately is not one answer to it, but there are many different approaches. And I say different businesses need different approaches because that's even more of a It's actually a topic about SEO and websites. And the big thing is you somehow need to convince people to buy your product. And that's the whole part of converting. And There are businesses which, most people would say are not, or agencies in general, have a big problem that there are too many agencies and many agencies do a bad job. Absolutely. Therefore, trust is something that needs to be built a lot. A trust you can build In hundreds of ways, you can have testimonial videos, you can have star ratings, you can have mentions in. Articles or whatever. And placing them or those trust elements strategically is really, important. Whole different thing, I don't know, roofing companies. There's not like in general people say yeah roofing companies do like a bad job. Maybe you have to explain what are much more what are the USPs and why you should work with them and then it makes no sense, like, putting a lot of trust elements on a website like this if people already trust or have no problem with working with any company. They just want to know why this. And so therefore it's really important to understand the business and the case in general. 
 So you know, which are the, biggest things or the most important things to do in this specific case. And from SEO, it's actually the same thing because you have to find traffic that is valuable. Most traffic is always on informational keywords where people are just gathering information and have no intent of purchasing or comparing or whatever. But if you build a blog very well, And in the middle, you have a small call to action. I don't know, you're having issues with I don't know, cleaning something and then you have a product that helps you with that or I don't know, it could be anything. You can place that strategically without being selly or pushy, but just say, look, we have this product or comparison of products or whatever. And therefore you just look what's the intent of the product. Are they just looking for information, then a conversion rate, of like one percent is pretty good if it's like commercial investigation so people want to make a purchase but are still comparing product services or whatever you get a conversion rate of like 3-5%. If it's a transactional keyword search intent. People want to buy, want to do something. You can have 10-20% conversion rate. And so there it's really important that you understand this topic and get the right traffic and treat it in the right way for a transactional keyword you're not going to do a comparing a blog article for that. You're going to build a landing page and Selling them and offering them the product or service. On the other hand, for someone who's gathering information, trying to understand a topic, maybe... In the long run they're gonna buy but you're not gonna pitch them immediately something so that's really important to understand and see the bigger picture so you can build a strategy where you can get all kinds of traffic take them from where they are and you try to convert them. 
 Doesn't make sense so far. 

 Rose | 19:29
Absolutely. Yeah, no, I'm listening very intently. 
 I mean, don't think I'm not because I am. I think that's really great information. 
 Yeah... - Nadia, it's... 
 You know, intent of the buyer is always first. And, you know, we need to keep that in mind all the time. Because as you say, it could be, they might be just looking for information and, or they might be looking for to buy. We have to make our website pages accessible. Bit either or of either or one of the other, that's what I'm trying to say, one of the other of those things. 
 So how can we best do that so that we are, Getting the best out of the client searches. 

 Fabio | 20:20
In an aspect of on how to build the website or. 

 Rose | 20:24
What? Yeah, well, I'm thinking like say your front page of a website and, you know, should it be filled with information and, you know, the, you know, buttons to get them to buy or should we just focus on one or the other or both together? 
 Yeah. 

 Fabio | 20:40
I think it's, the mix makes it. So, It's really important that you give information and it gives good information in a way people like to receive it you're not going to be I don't know, publishing a book like this. You cannot have like text, endless text. Nobody's going to ever read that. 
 So you need to have good formatted text. Bullet points, lists. Call outs. Mentions... I don't know, all the things that can make a text more interesting to scan with the eye and then read it. 
 And then always you can have some call to actions. And it's about the... The business case a bit. 
 So there are like businesses where it can be more pushy without it being a bad thing. And there are businesses where you have to be really subtle and just "offer a form of contact". And so. And the same thing again, you really have to understand the business, analyze your competitors, see how they are doing. And if they are having blog articles, very informational, Nothing really pushy and then just a simple contact button In the future, Go with that. Maybe try a little more, but don't go too much. 
 Yeah. And then that's you have to feel the business. You have to understand it really well. And that's why I always say. SEO does not exist like in packages. You cannot have like packages, we do this and we do that because every business is individual, every target, every goal is individual, every situation is different. 
 So you cannot have like a fixed price on SEO and say, we're going to build 10 or 20 backlinks or we're going to build. That amount of pages or blog articles because that's nonsense. That's like having a really individual... Case and having always like just out of the book solutions for it doesn't work. 

 Rose | 22:51
No. And I understand that, you know, I must get about 20. Emails a week. No word of a lie, 20 emails a week offering me SEO services from somewhere or other. Saying that they can give me for a set price these things. But they get in... Get put in the block list. 

 Fabio | 23:12
Yeah, that's the same thing as if a... As if a doctor would tell you, yeah, okay, you're having a headache, take this pill. It could be anything. It could be... Worst case, it could be some kind of cancer and you're just taking a pill. You have to understand first what is going on. 

 Rose | 23:29
Yeah, absolutely. And then you can solve it. I think there's a lot of scammers out there and it's buyer beware, honestly, you've got make sure that you are getting the best for you, I think. And you really need to have a conversation with someone who's going to be offering you SEO or someone that's just sending you a cold... Cold cap cold email is not going to be the one for you, I wouldn't think. 

 Fabio | 24:00
I mean, it can be the first touchpoint, but you cannot buy from there. And I never offer anything regarding SEO or even website if I... Haven't talked like intensively to the person because i don't know what they need i don't know what they want i don't know where their business is there is like no finished solution I can offer them. And so therefore, it's always really individual. 

 Rose | 24:26
Absolutely, no, I 100% agree with that. I think, you know, same as my podcasting coaching. 
 I mean, I wouldn't sell, I mean, I've got an online one, but if I was going to do it one-to-one or I was going to offer a done-for-you service, I would have to talk to the person first to find out exactly what they needed from me and what they wanted to get from the podcast course. That's pointless sending a cold email and not, you know, putting a call to action to say, give me a call. 

 Fabio | 24:53
Absolutely. Absolutely. 

 Rose | 24:56
You can find Fabio on LinkedIn. And on his website, which is winnow.ch.au, And Fabio, you don't have anything you want to, do you have a product or a service that you want to promote today? 

 Fabio | 25:12
Not really. I really want just to offer to everybody, if you have questions, just shoot me a DM on LinkedIn. And if you want to talk about the possibilities, or you want to see what possibilities there are, we can absolutely hop on a call. And I really like to be transparent and just share my screen and show you the tools. And so you can really see what the current situation of your website is that you really see it and you don't get sold anything you don't actually need. 

 Rose | 25:40
Fabulous. I like you already. Fabio it's been an absolute pleasure did you want to share any other information with our audience today? 

 Fabio | 25:52
No, just thank you very much for listening. And thank you very much, Rose, for having me. 

 Rose | 25:58
It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. 

 Speaker 4 | 26:01
You've been listening to Talking With The Experts, hosted by Rose Davidson. Make sure you have a look at our back catalogue over at talkingwiththeexperts.com. And be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss out on any episode. We look forward to your company next time.